Wow... time flies fast.
One year ago today, I started the orientation on Seas The Day 425.
I've been thinking about this post for a while, because purchasing the 425 was a very different experience for us than we had with the 315 five years earlier. I want to document the less pleasant aspects of owning a new boat for a change.
Please understand, we love Seas The Day. You can click around the blog entries on the right and see that we thoroughly enjoy sailing her, living on her and sharing her with family and friends. Still, compared to the 315, she seemed to experience a large number of issues (by our limited experience). This post is about the process of identifying a "punch list" and the developing warranty issues on a new sailboat.
First some brief background... when we purchased Seas The Day 315, we ordered her from the factory in mid-winter, and we were largely the first people aboard beyond those building and commissioning her. She was set up primarily as a sailing vessel - we were living in a condo overlooking the Keyport Yacht Club mooring field and expected to stay on her overnight only occasionally. So... she had no generator, no AC, no TV, stereo, microwave... she was a relatively simple ship. After our delivery trip, we identified a few issues (the one I remember was a bad bilge pump) and a couple of guys came from the dealership a week or two later and took care of everything. And that was the entirety of punch-list/warranty issues on that ship.
Seas The Day 425 was a stock boat... meaning that the dealer had ordered her to have on hand to show off a Catalina 425 to prospective customers. She was fully equipped with almost all options (except, no spinnaker, grrrrr), and she commanded a price to match. As we have kiddingly have said, Seas The Day 425 was the sailing equivalent of a supermarket check-out purchase. We took my cousins on a cruise on Shardana, fell in love with the boat, went to the dealership a few days later and said "oooh look at this, let's place this 425 on the conveyer belt".
I blundered in several ways during the purchase, one of which was not realizing what being a stock boat meant. During her life at the dealership, I expect she saw a fair bit of foot traffic, and while major systems like the engine and generator were not commissioned, they did "age in place". But I also under appreciated the complexity of upgrading to a boat like this (with many more systems that our 315).
Over the year, I have kept a detailed record of every issue we had to deal with. Some were cosmetic, some were warranty items, and honestly, some were user errors. This post is primarily for me to look back on in my old age, but if you're into the gory details (or thinking about getting a stock boat), come along as we examine the warts.
Seas The Day 425 is a Catalina 425. She was built at Catalina Yachts in September 2018. Designed by Gerry Douglas, she's part of their new "5-Series line". We purchased her in September 2019 and she spent the year in between at the dealership, Winter's Sailing Center. I assume part of that year was in the showroom, part of it was in the water (as we found her) and I expect she may have been carted off to some boat shows. We have also found out that being "built" in September of 2018 means that some components might have been built much earlier (our Chart Plotter for example, is from September of 2017).
This is not to sound bitter... more... self-critical as I never thought to ask about her previous history when purchasing a "new" boat. We purchased the stock boat because we wanted a quick delivery in order to squeeze some enjoyment out of her in the late fall of 2019... and we did (click around on the right to see how much we enjoyed the fall of 2019)!
Now let's pause and be honest... this is COVID Summer. If we had not purchased her that quickly, we would not own a 425 currently. If we had decided to hold back, research and custom order, we probably would have been in the process as the COVID news broke during our Chinese New Year trip in January. THAT would have spooked us and we'd be sailing the 315 out of Keyport this summer. So overall, we're very glad we made the purchase when we did.
So here are the issues... the first set (long list) are things we considered warranty issues, serious design safety flaws and a few cosmetic issues we identified early on. The second set are some design issues relating to usability - they're not warranty issues, but things that probably weren't thought of when Catalina originally assembled the 425. I'll try and be brief except where I want to tell a story.
OUR ISSUES ON 425 HULL #49
Rough patch on starboard ceiling
This one just speaks to the uncanny ability of my beloved Vicky to just find flaws anywhere and everywhere. This patch of ceiling is on the extreme starboard wall, just before the wall to the forward cabin. A normal human can't see it (it's up where the indirect side lighting is) and within seconds of going below, she put her hand up there, felt that part and said "this is rough". Of course it was... the dealer fixed it within a week.
Discolored spot on port steering wheel
Vicky also saw this our first day on-board. We could never clean it, and it took 7 or 8 months (including winter storage), but it was eventually replaced.
Bad SS Winch handle
On orientation day we discovered that the supplied stainless steel winch handle (maybe it was chromed steel) was not assembled correctly and couldn't be inserted into the winch. I believe the solution here was that Captain Gary went down the dock and replaced it with one from another vessel.
Missing Generator door "D-ring
Also during orientation, we discovered that one of the d-rings for the generator door latch was missing. I know this one was retrieved from another 425. I remember that he explained that they had time before that boat's delivery that they could order that from the factory. (It did make me look more carefully for other places where the stock boat might have been "used for parts" - none were found.)
Large gouge on edge of teak cockpit table
This was a bit frustrating because the solid teak cockpit table was a $3K option (already installed, so we took it but probably wouldn't have ordered it). We noticed the first visit that there was this gouge in the wood, and at that price, we wanted it to be perfect (so we could put in our own scratches in later). This should have been fixed while still at the dealership, but they couldn't find the gouge... fortunately a mutual friend pointed it out to our dealer during the delivery ceremony. It was finally fixed late this spring.
Main Companionway hatch not functional (SAFETY ISSUE)
This started out funny, then became very scary. Catalina came out with a new design for their companionway hatch (photos above from the owner manual). It slid down in two sections - the top unweighted, and the bottom balanced for weight. It had a full page in the owner manual on how to operate it.
My first night on the boat (during orientation), I had to try 2 or 3 times to get it closed, then in the morning, I could NOT get it open. I wasn't too worried... Captain Gary lived at the marina and would soon arrive, and I did get it open with 5 minutes or so of trying.
I explained the situation to Gary who assured me it was working properly and then he CLOSED IT (with us both inside).
Of course, he then could not get it open. Yes, it was a perfect routine from The Three Stooges (even if there were only two of us).
I suggested he call his girlfriend to come rescue us which probably horrified him enough to remember that you could climb out the aft port cabin - which he then demonstrated and which I immediately realized I could never do (Captain Gary is MUCH older than me 😉 and MUCH MORE fit).
This getting "trapped" continued every night for many months - sometimes taking 4 or 5 tries to get the hatch closed or open. Once I seemed to get the hang of how to do it, something would happen that caused it to fail again in a different way (e.g., the rope for the balance weight jamming) and it always failed in the closed position. As this repeatedly happened (over a few months) I had visions of being trapped inside during a fire (like the
MV Conception) and being unable to exit quickly.
I'm sorry to admit this... I ended up writing a nasty email to Gerry Douglas and my dealer.
That finally resulted in the hatch being replaced by more normal doors. I've since learned through the 425 facebook page that Catalina has stopped using the sliding hatch design. (Gerry, if you read this, I'm sorry for my tone, but I do hope you go back and replace the other hatches before a tragedy occurs.)
Large crack on fiberglass companionway frame
Cosmetic issue, identified early in the spring, fixed a month or so later.
Mold growing in the sealant
This was one of the issues that caused me to think about the exact life this vessel had during it's time at the dealer. There was a nasty mold growing in all the caulking sealant that Vicky (despite her cleaning OCD) couldn't get rid of. The sealant was replaced after a month or two.
Fuel spitting out the vent
Back in October (our first month), we noticed that fuel would begin spitting out the fuel vent when underway and especially when refueling. It wasn't a lot of fuel, but it caused a big yellow stain below the vent.
After a call to our dealer their guy checked it on the next warranty trip and found the fuel vent line (in the AC duct chase above the bunk in the aft port stateroom) had some failed wire ties and was sagging. Their guy didn't have any ties with him on that visit and they coached our local marina service guy on how to effect a repair.
CO Detector/Battery issue
This was one of the more insidious and annoying problems. In early June I got a call that there were alarms going off inside the boat. We were heading down anyway and when we got there, we discovered that the CO detectors were going off. A friend advised me that the detectors were known to be flaky so I contacted the dealer to arrange replacement.
But all four were going off... that didn't seem like a defect to me. Yes, they were all manufactured at the same time (spring 2018), but they technically had many years of life left in them. That started a multi-month research process while the possibility of replacing the detectors slowly moved through the system.
(My MAIN complaint about this whole year has been how long it took for the dealer and Catalina to agree that something needed replacing.)
Of course throughout this process, I would routinely get calls about my alarms going off. (I'm grateful that my dock-mates didn't string me up.) If I took them outside, though, they were silent. And they always responded OK to the test button.
I began thinking "what if it really is CO?" (Well, that's not possible if the stove, engine and generator are not in use.)
Could they be detecting something else (off-gassing of a new boat perhaps)? That is when I discovered the true age of the boat (built in 2018) and no... it was finished off-gassing a year and a half later.
Some internet research indicated that hydrogen from lead acid battery charging could be the culprit - especially if the battery was bad.
Quite a few days on my bad knees resulted. I know (expected) the batteries were well-cared for. We only had the boat for 6 to 8 weeks after commissioning before she was put away for the winter. We paid for winter battery checks and charging at the yard, and the boat was commissioned for the spring just a few weeks before the alarms started going off. I had similar flooded batteries on the 315 for 5 years without incident, and they only sipped a little water over the course of a year.
As I dealt more with the batteries and checked them weekly, I realized they were drinking much more water that expected. In particular the back battery (closet to the engine above) was taking much more water than normal. With 3 batteries and 24 ports to fill, I invested in a battery filler and finally got a specific gravity tester where I learned that battery (closest to the engine) had some bad cells.
My favorite quote from the dealer when asking for a replacement was "Batteries don't really have a warranty unless they're bad right out of the box". This was texted to me as I was reading about how most deep cycle batters will typically come with a one-year warranty.
THAT got me disgusted (aided by weeks/months of dealing with some of the issues below) so I got in touch with my marina's service department who gave me an incredible price to replace the batteries with AGM batteries (that don't require me to get on my knees). Yes, I spent $1800, but the cost for AGMs from Catalina was quite a bit higher.
Oh, and once the batteries were replaced, the CO detectors stopped going off. Around that time I got word from the dealer that the replacement CO detectors had arrived. I advised him to hold off... the original detectors are likely fine.
Main water pump (Jabsco Flo 5.0) shutting down repeatedly
One weekend the water pump that runs the house water system started shutting down every few minutes. That started a panic (no water pump... no toilet flushing, showers or dish washing). I found that after cycling the breaker for 20 seconds or so, it would work for a few minutes more.
A call to the dealer got it replaced within a week or so.
But I have to comment here... this turned out to be a known issue. The firmware on the pump needed updating. Learning that disappointed me as I felt a known issue of this importance should have been proactively addressed.
Forward stateroom door binds
Latch on file drawer doesn't operate properly
These are little adjustments that were taken care of within a few weeks.
Plastic finger-hold on AC sea strainer was brittle and disintegrated
The first time I checked the AC sea strainer, the plastic finger loop at the top was extremely brittle and it broke with very little upward force applied. This was discovered late enough in the process that I just didn't want to deal with the warranty issue... I just ordered the $50 part from WestMarine.
Main refrigerator couldn't be set to safe temperature
Not everything that I thought was a problem, turned out to be a problem. Our main refrigerator stopped being able to hold a "safe" temperature (based on my bimetal "fridge" thermometer). I started a warranty request to have the fridge serviced (because I never had this issue with the other boat), but while working through the process, we realized it was a frost build-up problem (in other words, user error). We had never used the fridge on the first boat for more than a couple of days at a time (we kept Seas The Day 315 on a mooring ball), so we never had to worry about defrosting before.
Freshwater flow to forward toilet not operating
This took a long and frustrating time to get replaced. Based on the Facebook group, it was a known issue (the Jabsco solenoid had a batch with bad springs), but the part was considered expensive and it took a long time to arrive during which we flushed by using the forward shower to rinse out the toilet.
What was especially frustrating was that the part was listed on Amazon at $125 with delivery in two days.
The aft head is showing signs that it may have a similar issue, but since I guess today is the one year mark and the water is still flowing (mostly), I guess we'll have to replace this one.
Dodger snaps pulling out of fiberglass
This issue appeared after a couple of intense storms (50+ MPH winds). I'm guessing the wind stressed the snaps for the dodger installed in the fiberglass. This happened late in the summer and a couple of requests to the dealer for advice resulted in nothing, so I just re-bedded them with 5200 adhesive.
Drain in aft head sink not draining properly
Dealer checked it, says everything is OK... still not draining well.
Card slot #2 in Raymarine Axiom Pro display not operational
This was discovered when I purchased a Navionics card this spring... trying to keep both in place, the #2 card slot was always greyed out. Both cards were good (if you switched, the card in slot #1 could be read). Dealer response on this is still disappointing... he passed the buck to the nearest Raymarine dealer and despite my supplying serial number, etc., I still haven't heard anything.
(Follow-up note: The chart plotter was finally replaced in 2021.)
Wind instrument sometimes gives low readings.
This is one of those maddening intermittent issues that I first noticed last fall during the delivery trip. sometimes I'll read the wind gauge and see wind speeds of 7 or 8 knots when it's blowing much higher. If you're familiar with the Beaufort scale, I shouldn't be seeing white-caps at 8 knots of wind.
There are, however, many times that the wind gauge seems fine.
Bow Thruster control brain damaged.
This happened returning to the dock one day... the bow thruster suddenly got a mind of it's own. It would start pulsing in a given direction or staying continuously "on" in the opposite one (not something you want while trying to dock the boat). It was unpredictable, but at least could be turned off. The dealer replaced it before the next weekend (but the replacement came from another boat, and again it was a known issue - friends had told me to be ready for it to go).
That's it with the warranty concerns....
ANNOYING USABILITY ISSUES
These are not warranty issues... things are functioning as designed. But they way they are makes me think that nobody actually tested the design with all the pieces installed and operational.
VHF Marine Radio display can't be read with bifocals
If you look carefully, you can see the marine radio tucked way back under the electrical cabinet. If I remove the Raymarine grey cover, there's an LCD display. The problem is if you have bifocals, you have to contort and practically break your neck trying to read the display. Fortunately, I only have had to do that to enter the MMSI number the first time it was used. The rest of the time I use the handheld mic in the cockpit. But I do mostly day trips... I can see where an older cruiser trying to talk with friends in the evening is driven mad by this when it's time to change channels. There must be a better place or way to mount this radio - especially when you consider how important it is.
AC Panel for aft cabins is hard to read.
Same photo above, the AC panel is just to the left of the electrical cabinet. Seeing the light green LEDs (so you know what mode it is in and fan speed) requires you to kneel on the seat and get your head way over in front of it. (There is a remote, but it always seems to be lost when I need to check this.)
Reading engine hours requires you to have your head on the cockpit floor
The main engine display is mounted right below the chart plotter. It's great for glancing down to read the tachometer while underway. But in the low center of the tachometer (just below the red needle pointing to zero) is an LCD display that gives you a lot of information about the engine. However, you must be in line with it for it to be visible, so your eyes must be about 6 to 8 inches above the cockpit floor. Oh, and if you're wearing polarized sun glasses, it disappears as you get your head sideways to lower your eyes to that level.
Engine oil dipstick
In the starboard aft cabin there is this neat little door that opens for easy access to the engine shutoff and oil dipstick. You can just barely make out the dipstick on the lower right. Unfortunately, that means the hole that you have to insert the dipstick into after reading is about 3 inches lower - down deep in a place that the light doesn't shine. It's a shame the door couldn't go to the floor.
Companionway Hatch
I think I covered that adequately above.
SUMMARY
So that's the first year of boat issues. Some were cosmetic (identified in the first week or two), some were warranty/safety concerned and some are usability flaws. There were a few big frustrations. First, no new boat owner wants to hear that the dealer "sold too many boats" and can't attend to your issues. We heard that during the fall.
Second, known issues should be communicated to your customer base... and you should stock adequate replacement parts for fast resolution. We shouldn't have had to wait over a month to get the toilet flushing for a known batch of bad solenoids. There were times it seemed as though the warranty resolution process was designed to make us wait.
Again, we want to be clear... WE LOVE OUR BOAT! This is a long blog post (mostly for me to read in the future). If you stumbled upon it and read all the way to the end, you're probably thinking about getting a 425 in which case I'd recommend you reach out the the
42/425 users group on Facebook. If you're from a dealership or from Catalina, consider it customer feedback.
Finally, I want to emphasize two points. First, I realize that this may come across as critical of the dealer or Catalina. That's not my intent. We get that it's complex to manage all these things coming in on multiple boats, but we do want to emphasize that post-sales support is critical. (We're always looking for our next boat, aren't we? In fact, part of the reason we purchased this one so quickly was how fast items were resolved on the 315.) One thing that Winter's Sailing did that was key was introducing us to great people like Captain Gary and Captain Andy who have both been incredibly helpful.
Second, we realize that we are truly blessed and these "annoying issues" are the definition of "first world problems". We emphasize a lot in our blog about how incredible and fun owning a new boat is... I just wanted to document a bit of balance - there are frustrations after all. None of that, diminishes the sheer joy of being out on the water with a loved one and friends.
Now we'll get back to the fun stuff!
